We partnered with ADVANCE for a discussion on the role the Black LGBTQ2S+ community has played in laying the foundation for modern pop culture. Hosted by Nzingha Millar with appearances from Billy Newton-Davis, Desiire, and Witch Prophet, the panelists examine the influence of Canada’s prominent Black LGBTQ2S+ musicians and ways to increase visibility and support for Black LGBTQ2S+ professionals.
Watch the panel on YouTube or read the transcript below.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Nzingha Miller
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the fourth JUNO Talks series by Advance and JUNO Talks. We’re so excited that you’re all here with us today. Thank you, thank you for taking the time to be a part of this discussion. My name is Nzingha Miller, and I’m so happy to be with you all today. Before we get started, let me just tell you a little bit about why we’re here. So, as you know, this is the fourth talk in the JUNO Talks series, and this is specifically about LGBTQ2S+ voices in Black Canadian music. Let me say that again, LGBTQ2+ voices in Black Canadian music. We need to give the time and space to have this conversation, and we’re so happy that you’re willing to be a part of this conversation with us today. So before I get started, I want to say thank you for making this a part of your day. And this panel will include conversation amongst some of Canada’s prominent Black LGBTQ+ musicians and industry professionals on the role that their community has played in laying the foundation for the blueprint of modern pop culture. This discussion is an opportunity to educate the music industry on the influence of these artists and to discuss how we can collectively increase the visibility and support for Black LGBTQ+ music professionals.
Alright, so I’m going to be joined shortly by a few amazing people. But before we get started, I want to acknowledge that on behalf of myself Advance and the JUNO Awards, it is with deep respect that we would like to acknowledge that this is the land that we are meeting on, and this is the traditional territory of many nations across Canada. I myself am in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Shout out to all my Scotians, and this is the unceded territory of the Mi’kmaq people. So I’m just very grateful and honoured to be able to be a part of this land today.
So, Advance is Canada’s Black music collective, and they are an organization leading the change in developing the infrastructure for the betterment, upliftment, and retention of Black people in the music business. Their mission is to help foster an environment within the Canadian music industry that improves, promotes, and better retains Black employees and partners. So to learn more about Advance, you’re going to learn a bit more about Advance today, possibly, and we can add some links in the chat so you can check out what Advance is doing. And we’re going to be able to have an interactive conversation, including a Q&A feature, to ask some of the artists we’re going to speak to today about their experiences and get all the information that we want out of the conversation. So, yes, Advancemusic.org is now in the chat. There’s going to be a Q&A feature, so please make sure you use that. Get your questions out there. We’ll have 15 minutes at the end to talk through all of those questions.
A bit about myself, before I introduce my awesome panelists that are going to be coming up here. I am born and raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I come from an intensely musical family that has always shown me an appreciation for Black Canadian music specifically. I grew up kind of on the road some of the time with both of my parents who were musicians and getting to experience the world through their eyes. I feel blessed that I am the daughter of Delvina Bernard, who is one of the founders of Four The Moment, a very iconic Black music acapella group from Canada, from Nova Scotia, to be specific. And my dad, even though he has his day job, he’s a jazz musician. So music is in my bones. My day job, I work as a public relations professional, and for me, it’s about bringing out the stories that are too often ignored when it comes to the history of Black Canadian music.
And that’s what we’re here to do today. So enough about me. I am going to introduce our amazing and lovely panelists. And first up, I’m going to call DESIIRE to just say hello, pop up on the screen, and let us know a little bit about yourself.
DESIIRE
Hello, everybody. Hi. Good morning. Good afternoon. I hope everybody is doing well. So, my name is DESIIRE and I am an African singer, songwriter and artist. I was originally born in the beautiful country and land of the Democratic Republic of Congo. Shout out to all my Congolese people out there. But I currently reside in Toronto. My music is a mixture of a lot of different genres but primarily based in African music as well as RnB music. I usually like to call it Afro-jazz fusion, but extending from that, I’m also a huge lover of music, so I always love to incorporate different elements, including hip-hop, a little bit of jazz and a little bit of electronic music as well. In terms of my musical history, I have been singing and performing for 10+ years, but professionally releasing music for about four or five. So I think I still consider myself quite a newbie in the industry and I’m excited to be here with you all today. I’m excited to share space and to share conversations and all this with everybody. And thank you for having me.
Nzingha Miller
Thank you so much DESIIRE. I’m so excited to get into where you’ve been, where you’ve come from and where you’re going. But next, we’re going to talk to Witch Prophet. Let me see what you’re up to, girl.
Witch Prophet
Yeah, my name is Witch Prophet, I’m an Ethiopian and Eritrean, singer-songwriter from Toronto. I run Heart Lake Records with my wife and partner, SUN SUN, who’s also my producer. Been making music and curating shows and doing all sorts of things within the scene since 2009. My most recent album release was in 2020. It was called DNA Activation and it got on the shortlist for Polaris Music Prize.
Nzingha Miller
Okay, okay. See, I have had the pleasure of being able to talk to both Witch Prophet and DESIIRE. And I can tell you right off the bat, I’m going to have to tease out more from these two people because they are phenomenal and everybody deserves to know it. If you don’t already know about their music, please do check them out and we’ll be shouting out socials and where to get in touch in a little bit. But before we do that, I would love to introduce Billy Newton-Davis. Please, come to the front.
Billy Newton-Davis
I’m lovely and happy to be here. And it really is wonderful to be with Witch Prophet and DESIIRE on this panel because, well, they’re new in my life and I’ve heard their music – quite, quite wonderful. And I also love that we’re so multicultural. Like, we’re all from unique backgrounds, but we’re all Black. That is what the common beauty of it all is. But the different genres of music is exciting, and Canadians really need to know these kids because there’s just more than hip hop and rap and this and that. There are just so many genres within the genre. So thank you all for having me.
Nzingha Miller
Please tell us a little bit about yourself, Billy, before we get started.
Billy Newton-Davis
Well, I have won four JUNOS. I’ve been around for a long time. I’ve done stages around the world. I worked in New York, Los Angeles, London, Paris. I was a backing vocalist for Gloria Gaynor when I was a kid. I worked with Sammy Davis when I was a kid. I did a duet with Celine Dion, who’s one of our beautiful Canadian icons. But I’ve just been around, kind of, and I think now what I’m enjoying is watching all of this. I’m still participating, I still sing, I still record. But I’ve worked with Salome Bey. I think that she really is the reason why I sit here, because when I first came to Toronto from New York, I came with a show and through time I met Salome, and she just made my adventure wonderful. And I just tapped on a whole lot of stuff in the art world. Just tapped in. I don’t know what else I can tell you.
Nzingha Miller
No, that’s perfect. So I think to begin, I want to talk a little bit about the title for this discussion today because I think that it really does tee up what we want to talk about and where we want to go with the discussion. And so when we thought about having this discussion to shine the light on some of Canada’s most prominent LGBTQ+ musicians, but [more than that], Canada’s prominent musicians and artists, we wanted to think about the ‘then’ and the ‘now’. So that’s been part of our conversations over the last few weeks, and when we think about the ‘then’ we think about all of the trailblazers that came before us and what they did to lay the blueprint and the foundation for what we’re able to do now. And that’s where we got the title from, the culture, the blueprint. How often do Black queer artists get the recognition that they deserve for breaking barriers, setting trends, and encouraging the shift in the culture to change? I think that has been something that we don’t always focus on when we talk about Black history in general, Black pop culture and then music culture in general. and Canada’s music culture.
So we want to talk a bit about that, but we also want to talk about who these beautiful people are that I am joined by today so that you can hear from their personal experience and what they’re learning about the industry, what they have learned and what the industry can do now to support and make more Black LGBTQ+ artists visible in the space.
So without further ado, let’s talk about the journey. I’m going to ask a question to DESIIRE. You talked about your journey coming to music and how you went from being completely shy of the stage to now taking it over. Tell us a little bit about how you got to that point.
DESIIRE
Okay, well, the first thing that I have to say is the culture, the blueprint, let’s just really lean into that. The culture is different. Before I get into my own story, I think it’s really important for me to acknowledge all of the artists that have come before me that have laid the groundwork for the artist that I can be today. Black queer artists, Black trans artists, really never get the recognition and the praise and the love that we deserve. You look online, you look on television, you look in films, and everything from dance to lingo to fashion to attitude to the way that people move and the way that people converse and walk. It’s all from queer people and it’s all from Black queer people. Right? And I just feel so excited and so grateful to be living in a time where I’m able to fully express myself, not just as a person, but as an artist as well. And not have to hide and not have to mask and not have to not put all of my identity and all of who I am into my work in terms of my story and how I got here. It’s been a really interesting, strange and beautiful journey.
But one thing that I will say is I do find that it has been a bit of a lonely journey. And when I say lonely journey, I mean that in the sense of, I look at a lot of my heterosexual peers in the industry and it’s so beautiful to see them move and advance in the music world with support, right? And I find that especially for queer trans artists and Black queer trans artists, although we are extremely talented at what we do and we always want to reach for the stars and go for it, talent also needs support, right? So when I say that it’s been a little bit of a lonely experience, I mean that in the sense that every artist needs to have that support system in that infrastructure, right? And when we talk about infrastructure, we talk about management, we talk about PR, we talk about just a family that really helps to push the artists and push their vision forward. So all that to say, it’s been an incredible journey and I’m excited to keep growing and to keep moving.
Nzingha Miller
Wow. I’m so inspired by the way that you just took that question and turned it around. Thank you for acknowledging all of those that have come before. It’s so important. It gives you the wind beneath your wings to be where you are today. You can think about a time when it was literally dangerous to be as visible as everyone around this table is today. Your life could be in danger or at the very least, your livelihood. So I think that it’s just incredible that so much change can happen in a short period of time. I want to ask Witch Prophet the same question. I’m going to actually steal from DESIIRE and ask you, what the title means to you. What does the culture and the blueprint mean to you?
Witch Prophet
I always say, like, we are the culture, we are the blueprint. So what is creativity? What is the magic of this world? What is the gift that if everybody brings gifts to this planet, like, what is the gift of Black people? And that is music and that is culture and it is what we’re bringing to the table. But, yeah, in terms of creating that within the city, it has to do with hard work and opening up spaces that are not necessarily always interacting. So, in my case, 88 Days of Fortune was a collective that I co-founded myself, my partner and a bunch of friends. And it was probably one of the first hip-hop rap parties where it was an integrated scene. It was both queer and straight people hanging out, doing their thing, both queer people performing. I remember one time on our two-year anniversary, we had ILL NANA dance troupe come and perform, and the crowd was a lot of straight Black men. And ILL NANA is a queer dance troupe, but they’re so fantastic. The body structure, the dance, everything was like, you cannot deny the talent.
And I remember after that show, one of our members, one of the collective members who is straight, came up to me and was like, man, I’ve never seen something so beautiful in my life. I can’t believe I got to experience this. And I’ll never forget that. And that was when we decided, like, okay, we really got to push this integration of queer community and within the Black community, because growing up, it was like, hush hush. It’s like, ‘Oh, Black people, we’re not gay, we’re not queer’. That’s not a part of our culture, and that’s not true. It’s in everybody. So, it has nothing to do with colour at all. So, it was really nice to see that creating culture doesn’t exclude queerness. And in the city, it was like, actually, at the time, 2009, it was like, bubbling, starting to be like, okay, we can integrate. To this day, it’s still compartmentalized, but we’re here and we’re actively doing it. Anything you see online, any trending thing on TikTok, any voice you hear, any dance move you see, anything, anything, it comes from a Black person, like, 100%. That’s where it started from.
You can go back and search. When Black and queer people went on strike on TikTok and decided not to dance for, like, a few months, like, there was nothing. There was nothing on that app. There was no magic. It was like, Hey, we control that. So it’s good to be on a panel where it’s just said out loud, like, hey, we are the blueprint. Don’t forget that.
Nzingha Miller
Billy, I’m going to get you to answer the same question for me. And I just think that it’s amazing that we’re talking about integration, like, we’re talking about integration, and it just makes me think about how art, music has always been the catalyst to break down those divisions, those barriers, whether you’re talking about Black music in the civil rights era, pre-civil rights era, to now and also what you were just describing about the integrated scenes between queer and straight people in Toronto and how that just ushered in a completely new generation, a new vibe for the entire nightlife scene. And I think, Billy, you would be able to tell us more than anybody else here what that looks like, to see that wave of change coming from where you’ve come from.
Billy Newton-Davis
Well, first of all, I want to do a big shout out to our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, because we all know about Russia and we know about the Ukraine. And I’m telling you, you can’t be going around and being yourself in Russia. And I think that it’s a very interesting thing because of the art and culture scene there and what DESIIRE and Witch Prophet are saying that I’m just going to take it a little step. We create art. We as different kind of thinking people. We create art. And I was thinking about the Ukraine, and I just thought, how could I ever be somewhere and not be this? And so I’m going to roll the tape back because I think that, as Witch Prophet said, you really said something that really, as Black people, really bring something to the table. I mean, DESIIRE said it, too, that it’s quite a phenomena I don’t know, moving my hips. It just is. I just moved my hips. I maybe watched something, but I didn’t have to be taught to move my hips because my hips move, and everything all about me moves. So I’m very happy to be able to sit with you guys now because I can just remember when I signed my first deal and who I was being.
And we talked about this the other day. It was what I was thinking. But Helen Keller can see through that shit. And it’s just sort of like, you can run, but you can’t hide. And I’m so happy that I’m on this panel with these two beautiful people to just be able to talk about us and who we are and where we come from and talk about gay and talk about colour, art, things from our perspective. I’m just talking about from our own perspective and not having to sit on our hands. And that’s why I did that shout out, because can you imagine? This is 2022. Can you imagine, sitting on your hands today and not being able to share the joy that we, my whole cultural experience has been so expanded because I live in Canada. Number one is, it’s unbelievable. The African culture, the West Indian culture of what, it’s kind of different for my brothers and sisters in America. Maybe I haven’t lived there in a long time, so maybe it’s a little different. But I saw Black and I saw white, and that’s all I saw.
Nzingha Miller
Okay, speaking of what you’ve seen oh, sorry. I didn’t mean to cut you off, Billy.
Billy Newton-Davis
No, but I’m here, and it’s so wonderful to be able to experience and have my freedom. I think that’s the beauty. Did I answer your question?
Nzingha Miller
Yes, you did. And so well and so eloquently. I am thinking about the obstacles and the challenges. Can anybody share a specific obstacle that you can think of in your journey? It doesn’t have to be related to your Blackness or your queerness, but what are the obstacles that you’ve overcome and how did you find your way in that?
Billy Newton-Davis
No, I’m letting the kids actually, I was looking at DESIIRE.
Nzingha Miller
I do know a few of them.
DESIIRE
In terms of the obstacles and the challenges, I think that I and we as queer people, we see them and we feel them every day in big, major ways. But also in very small, subtle ways. It’s always interesting for me walking into a music space, whether it is a live show, a rehearsal, a studio setting, or anything that has to do with being in the music industry, there’s always usually like the first 30 to 45 minutes where you get a chance to really just walk in as yourself, right? You walk in as yourself and you interact with people around and you move and you groove. But I always find that there is always a little bit of a shift in the attitude of others when you bring up your queerness, right? It’s like, Oh, yes, you are this person, okay? Yes, you are this person, but now you are queer, right? And now you’re gay. So now my attitude towards you is different, right? The way that I speak to you is slightly different. The way that I interact with you is slightly different. So in terms of challenges and obstacles, although we do feel them in big ways a lot of times, it’s the small, subtle ways, right?
DESIIRE
For me, I think of myself as an artist. An artist, period, right? But a lot of times I’m announced as a queer artist, I’m announced as a gay singer, right? Which is actually, of course, that is part of my identity and that is who I am to the core. But also, let’s also listen to the music, right? Let’s look at the story as a whole, right? So I’m not sure if I answer that quite precisely, but yeah, big and small ways.
Nzingha Miller
You did absolutely. Anybody else?
Billy Newton-Davis
Well, I’ve listened to both of their music and I didn’t go looking for their music because they may be queer or gay. I wanted to hear what they both did as artists. It boggles my mind and blows my mind to even think that people think that way. And I guess they do think that way. I’m old now, so like I said, you can see through my stuff. And I often didn’t think you could because I was trying to be so butch. I don’t want to live in a world like that. And I don’t want my peers that I’m sitting here with to ever feel that. I mean, to be introduced as a queer, I mean, that would just like I’d be messing somebody up. What are you talking about? I’m a singer. I’m an artist. I am lots of people as well. I’m lots of people. And I was looking at a piece that Witch Prophet did and she had these beautiful children. That’s what I’m saying. We have children, we have lives, we cook, we clean, we shop, we have all kinds of friends. So I want to create a world like that. I don’t want anyone to have to go through what I went through.
Billy Newton-Davis
I thought I was hiding and I wasn’t. But I just want to look at Witch Profit as an artist, I want to look at DESIIRE as an artist. I want them to be around as an artist, and I want them to do well with that art. That’s very important to me.
DESIIRE
I just have to say, Witch Prophet’s videos. She has some of the most incredible, magical music videos. Please take some time to watch them, because you are incredible at what you do. Your visual art is incredible.
Nzingha Miller
I had to ask her, I said, So who styles you? When she told me that she styles herself, I said, no, this is actually nothing else but pure genius. And I’m saying, this is just the light that can’t be dimmed. But tell us, it wasn’t always easy. You have to get to that point, right? And you talked to me about the challenges of getting funding. For instance, once you have the money in your hand, you’re able to go buy all the beautiful pieces that we see in your music videos. Hire the actors, hire the dancers, all of those things to actually see your vision come to life. But it wasn’t always like that. So tell me about that.
Witch Prophet
No, I think the first grant I ever got from my actual solo music was in 2019. I’ve been doing things since 2009. Even with my collective, we only got one grant from the Toronto Arts Council. I think it was like $3,000, and everything else was out of pocket. Everything else has always been out of pocket. Either my pocket or my wife’s pocket. Luckily, she has a credit card. I’ve never had a credit card. She’s always been the one being like, don’t worry, we’ll put on the credit card. We pay back the credit card. That’s how it goes. Until I started getting grants, which just recently, I got accepted for Canada Council grant, which is like, I cried because I was like, this is for my upcoming album. Because I was like, I know I can do it without the money because I’ve done it without the money. But how much better can it be when I’m able to hire the people who are actually like, if I say I’m an expert in music, even though I’m not an expert, but if I’m an expert in music, why would I do the job of a videographer?
Why wouldn’t I pay an expert videographer? That’s what the money provides. And so for so long, it was like, passion. Music is just passion, and it’s not actually anything that can make money. And so I’ll have all these side jobs, but these side jobs are making me sick because I don’t want to do this. I didn’t want to be a caterer. Like, I was doing catering jobs. I only had one job where I actually liked, and it was working at Come As You Are, which is like a feminist sex store downtown. I worked there for five years, and I loved it. I was just like, this is great. It’s a queer space. They gave me time off for my music. I was paid really well. So it made me feel like, okay, I can do music, this passion, and also do a job where it’s bringing in money and it’s providing education and things to my community. But then when it really came down to it, I was like, no, I want to do this music right. I want to do it right. And I have the right to get the money and the funding. I had to change my mindset of, like, I’ll get the little bit that I deserve.
Like, no, why don’t I get abundance? Why am I not allowing myself abundance? As soon as I started thinking like, that is when I was like, okay, these grants are coming in. And if it’s not the grants, then we’ll license one of the songs that I already have and we’ll use that money and, like, something will happen and this will come through. And that’s literally what happened. It started with licensing my songs for commercials and TV shows and doing all of this without a label, without a management, without publishing, without anybody, because everybody who I talk to is like, oh, you’re doing so good. Wow, you do so great. And it’s like, Yeah, well, I don’t want to do all this. I don’t want to do all this more.
Nzingha Miller
I feel like it’s the creative industry, right? I’ll just say this. I won’t say much, but I feel like the creative industry, there’s no other industry of professionals, because not only are you an artist, you’re a professional where we would expect, like, a dentist to go do a heart surgery, let the artist be great at the art. They need to hire a manager. They need to hire a PR person, et cetera, to do all of those things and be a real team. Otherwise we can’t make excuses for why we don’t see more artists than just, like, the Drake’s and The Weeknd’s coming out of Canada. And we have had this conversation before where we talked about how Canada’s industry is very interesting because it’s great. We have support from the government. It’s very much so an industry that relies on that support. But, Billy, you were talking about going from stateside to Canada, in those days and just the change of who gets nurtured, where do the dollars g behind whom? And you’ve always kind of felt like you were a bit in that shadow.
Billy Newton-Davis
I’m trying to find that right word. I always kind of felt, well, I got the record deal. Okay? I got the record deal. And then when I got the record deal then I had to fight for the music and what I was going to do and who I was going to work with, who I was going to write with. Each time was a struggle, and I would think to myself, why is this? Because I did come from New York to here so I saw a bigger picture in New York but at that time you had to be very young. I’m sorry. Let me flip that around. You have to be mature at that time when I came now you have to be twelve. But anyway, it just kind of boggled my mind that you want something of greatness and you must support this to have greatness and why is it such a struggle? Why? I mean, really, why is it such a struggle? I look at the Molly Johnson’s and the Jackie Richardson’s and the Salome Bey’s and I watched them work and it’s just always well, I got to dig that hole to get in that hole and I don’t understand that and I don’t want to get into name calling and why artists succeed. Like you said, we have Drake, we have The Weeknd, we have Deborah Cox, we have successful people but we have a handful.
And then when you go outside in the globe, it’s just a world full. And I look at, these kids are fantastic. They’re great artists, they have great ideas. When you told me you have three grand to work with exactly. Am I supposed to do the camera work? I’m just doing the styling. I got to do the hair, I got to do the makeup, I got to do the catering, I’ve got to make the phone calls, I’ve got to do the social media platform. We need help. I want to know why there isn’t more understanding about that and why is it across the board more of an understanding than it is here?
Nzingha Miller
It would be interesting to find that out. That should be some homework for whoever is listening. If there are other music industry associations online today, that’s what we need to know. It’s a structural problem as much as it is a problem that targets certain individuals as well.
Billy Newton-Davis
I’m sorry to cut you off for 1 second but there was one thought that I had in mind. You always need somebody in your corner. That was the thought that these two artists and myself it’s so nice when we have that person that just works tirelessly to give us the moments and the chances that we have Celine had it with Rene, God rest his soul. But I know that a lot of the artists that I think of they had that person or those two people who backed them so deeply. And I want that for all of us. I want that person to stick their neck out and mortgage their house and sell their car and why not, not for me so much now, but for these kids, these are two beautiful artists, yourself. I want to see more of that kind of thing on a bigger scale. I can talk about it. You know that.
Witch Prophet
I want the recognition that Hip-hop and RnB and soul music is the number one music in the world. And the two top artists in the world come from Toronto. So we need better infrastructure to recognize that. It’s like, if we have the top music in the world, with the top artists in the world, and they come from here, why is the infrastructure still like this? This is ridiculous. Yeah, but that’s what it is. Drake, The Weeknd, even Justin Bieber, he’s pop music, but he wants to be RnB. Let him be RnB. Number one, let’s actually put those eyes on where that comes from, and that Canada actually needs this proper infrastructure. Like, the grants are fantastic. When I don’t get a grant, I’m like, Screw the grants. When I get them, I’m like woo!, Thank the Lord right now. I shouldn’t have to gamble my artistry on a lotto, which is what grants are. It’s a lottery. Because so many people put their livelihood behind the idea that maybe the grant will come through. And it shouldn’t be like that. There should be so many more labels actually being like, let’s take the risk and put the money out there. Take the risk.
Billy Newton-Davis
I had to make a point Witch Prophet. Just when you told me about the grant writing, I can’t sit down and do what you do. It is something to sit that’s why I had to break in. It’s something to sit down and write a grant. Like, I don’t know how to do it. I know several people that really know how to do that. But that was in itself, as I told.
Witch Prophet
Yeah. I was lucky enough to sit on a lot of granting committees. I used to work for Toronto Arts Council. I sat on the music committee. I was on the board. I read a lot of grants, and I saw what got the money and what didn’t get the money. And I also saw the amount of people that should have got the money, but the vocabulary wasn’t right. And so it’s like, man, the way that the structure is, it’s not actually accessible to a lot of people who deserve money, and it’s very accessible to people who know the words, what to say, and who just get in there and cycle through yearly getting it because they got it the year before. And so they’re like, well, that’s really why I’m able to be like, yeah, okay, I know what they’re looking for. I know now. I know now. But it took nine years to figure it out, and that’s not fair.
Nzingha Miller
You educated yourself on pretty much everything. Publishing deals. You said that Google is your best friend. And I think everybody here around the table has had to battle the imposter syndrome. I mean, maybe not Billy, because Billy always knew he was fabulous.
Billy Newton-Davis
Well, knowing you’re fabulous is one thing, and knowing that you’re a great singer is the other thing. But when I think about and it’s so wonderful to really be on the panel with these two artists, because I’ve done a lot and I’ve gained a lot, but it is always a struggle still and I think Witch Prophet you hit the nail on the head about I don’t know how I would approach The Weeknd or Drake or Bieber or any of that because it was so important for them to get out.
Nzingha Miller
Right?
Billy Newton-Davis
You know what I mean? But they’re back in and we created an environment for them to do what they do. I can’t say I’m part of their success, I buy their music. But it boggles my mind that you made that point because I’m looking at DESIIRE and I’m thinking, okay, I listen to his music and his vocals are supreme and he is right up in there with these guys. I mean, seriously, the look, the sound, the feeling, the package is there and I looked at this young lady, this young person excuse me, this young person. I’m impressed. I’m very impressed at what you both do and how you do it. And you have to keep doing it every day, not a couple of days, but you have to put yourself out there every single moment to achieve just what you’re achieving. It just boggles my mind.
DESIIRE
And I think that this also should be a challenge to all of the music industry professionals out there. Take a risk on queer artists. Take a risk on Black queer artists, because we have the talent, we have the songs, we have the voice, we have everything that all of the top, top stars have, right? But we are not going to be able to reach our full potentials if we have to be the social media manager, if we have to be the videographer, if we have to be the stylist, if we have to write our own grants. All of these things are very time consuming, not just physically, but mentally and emotionally as well, right? Because I have days when I’m like, okay, well, I’m going to schedule out my day and from this time to this time, I’m going to do this, this time to this time I’m going to do this. And then I look at the schedule and I have no time to write music, right? And the only time that I really have time or the only opportunity I really have to write music is at the end of the day, 8:30, 9 o’clock when I’m tired and I’m not inspired, right? So take a chance on Black queer artists because we need it and if you don’t, we’ll just do it by ourselves.
Billy Newton-Davis
That was kind of my job when I was thinking about my early part of my career was if I could have been myself more as I am today.
Nzingha Miller
Oh my goodness.
Billy Newton-Davis
I mean, that’s the challenge many times. So I’m very proud again to be sitting with this panel because I had to sit and think about all that plus trying to write a song, plus try to get a wardrobe piece together, plus get my hair fixed. I had to do all that. So my mission is to raise you up, to raise this up.
Nzingha Miller
I want to go quickly to our audience and just let everybody know that we’re on for a few more minutes. So please put any questions that you have for these lovely individuals in the chat. We’ll make sure to get to your questions before we’re done. It’s only a short conversation. It’s crazy how quickly an hour can go by, but please put your questions in the chat if you have them now. Last chance in a few minutes to get to those. I want to ask this while we’re waiting to see if any questions come in, which is actually bringing it back to the culture and the blueprint again and really to talk about Black music itself and this kind of myth that hip-hop RnB isn’t accepting of Black queer artists. I mean, it’s not a myth that there’s a lot of truth to it. There’s a lot of truth to it. But then when you look back whether it’s the origins of rock and roll to now with Lil Nas X, for instance, and you see people embracing and hyping everything up about him, but you’ve also got this faction that doesn’t feel like that belongs in hip hop, doesn’t feel like that belongs in he even had a country/hip hop crossover record. What do you think about carving out that space and maybe having to fight for the right to be viewed as this is Black music as well?
Witch Prophet
I love Lil Nas X. I love how in your face he is with his queerness. He’s also an incredible social media marketer. He’s very, very smart with everything he does. It’s very intentional. Everything he does is to get people talking and what a great thing to talk about, even if it is like, I can’t believe he did this. It’s like, yeah, I can’t believe it. I can’t believe he did this. And people are okay with it, the majority, and he’s making a lot of money and it’s like, wow, this is great. I never, ever thought I would live to see the day where we’d have guys in like a faux jail cell twerking while somebody is rapping and taking showers. This is pretty hot. I love it, I love it, do it, show it, get in people’s face. Like they want to say people have wild imaginations anyway. So it’s like, fine. I am going to attach to your wild imagination and I’m going to create this visual to put it in your face. Like, come on, we’re not all doing that daily. We’re not having these huge orgies. Maybe we are. I don’t know. My life is hard, if that’s what you’re thinking.
I’m going to make money off of it and good for him for doing that and putting it in people’s faces. One of the things that I like to do during my sets is usually my last song that I’ll perform is a song that I wrote about my wife. And so I say, I give a little story about it. And then I say, like, hey, just to let you know, if you find yourself dancing to this, you’re probably queer, because this is a really gay song, and I like to put it in effects, and I’m like, gay, gay, gay, queer, queer, queer. I like to fill the room with reverb and effects of being like, yes, let me take up this space just in case you saw me and was like, which is great if you see me and you’re just like, oh, Black artist, African artist. But I also want you to know that I am queer. And this person on stage with me is my wife, and we are going to take up space, and I am going to say it. I don’t want you only to think of me as that, but I don’t want you to forget.
I’m not going to let you forget. So I think with Lil Nas X and a lot of different you know, it’s not just him. There’s a lot of female rappers and a lot of female musicians playing on that Bi lifestyle of like, let’s do this, which is great. It’s like they’re feeding off of that. They’re doing it great. Allow it to be normal. Let’s show it as something that’s normal. Nothing to be shocked at. Even though some of the videos are like, Whoa. Oh, my God. Like, the Shenseea video, I don’t know if you saw that, but Shenseea and Megan thee Stallion video, I was like, okay.
Billy Newton-Davis
The KAYTRANADA vibe, it’s kicking up. I was asking people about him and I thought, what? Like, even me? I know who he is. Oh, I know. Just to add on a bit to Witch Prophet like, my lyrics, I’m in a relationship with a man going on almost 30 years. I’m conscious enough to talk about him in my singing because I had to finally get to that point of when it was a lie. Otherwise, I mean, I love singing Aretha, but I had to change the vibe to put in the correct because I’m older now and these are all new binary stuff is all new. I mean, it’s all new for me. So I’m sorting it out and fixing it. But very important that I sing to the guy, but I can sing to the girl. That’s the deal. But I think to sing to the guy from my heart is the big deal.
DESIIRE
Yeah.
Nzingha Miller
DESIIRE any thoughts about it?
DESIIRE
Yes. I mean, all of it. The person that you love, fills your heart with emotion and vibrancy and all of that amazing stuff. But I also just want to say because I know we’re probably out of time really soon, I also just want to give Billy Newton-Davis your flowers. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything that you’ve done for us, for queer people, for Black queer people, for Black Canadian queer people. We love you. We appreciate you. We are here because of you. And you are just an inspiration. And I love you.
Billy Newton-Davis
I love you. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate you both so much. But that’s my job. That’s my job. And that’s what I’ll keep doing until I die.
I got this call and the guy said, why are you always smiling? Why are you so happy? And it’s because each day I become more me, each day I become more myself. It was my partner who called in. He knows every day it’s my joy to laugh and smile. And I’m laughing and smiling when I can be me. That really at the end of the day, being me makes me happy out of anything I accomplished is my freedom. So thank you.
Nzingha Miller
I just want to thank every one of you, the panelists, everyone who’s been listening so far for being a part of this discussion. We really jumped right into it and started really getting into what we really mean about taking up space here today and having this conversation about the culture and the blueprint. It’s been excellent so far. And there was a question that came in just a few minutes ago which I think would be a great high note to leave off on for this discussion. And the person wants to know what you’re working on now, what’s inspiring you right now, and where can we find out information and how to support your art. These are the type of people we have listening here today. So I just want to give love to our audience.
Billy Newton-Davis
Yes.
DESIIRE
So I’ll start. I am currently working on my first full length project/album, which will be out this Fall that I’m really excited for. Excited, nervous and feeling all of the butterflies, but I’m feeling really good about it. And you can find me online at desiirenow, D-E-S-I-I-R-E NOW on all social media.
Billy Newton-Davis
I’m working on a show called Sammy and Me, which a friend of mine, Tom Allison, sat down and wrote a script. It’s an autobiographical kind of biographical thing about my work with Sammy Davis. I’m always recording. I’m always looking for recording. I wish I could tell you guys who I talked to today. I’m just freaking that I talked to this person. You know how you’ve been trying to talk to somebody for ten years or reach out to them? And the guy said to me, send me some vocals. I want to hear your voice. I’ll tell you about that next time. But that’s what I’m doing and living life, enjoying life and being around people like you to let me be me. That’s what I’m doing.
Witch Prophet
Lovely. I am currently working on my third album. It’s called the Gateway Experience, and its theme is on temporal lobe epilepsy, the brain, headaches, out of body experiences and dreams and its connection to God. I suffer with epilepsy and seizures. So I’m going to dive deep into a very personal album. It’s produced by my wife who’s been sitting here the whole time. She’s like, hello. It’s produced by her. And we have a lot of really great artists on the album. Yeah, it should be out later on this year.
Nzingha Miller
Well, I don’t have any projects to talk about, but my biggest project was just having sit down with each one of you and getting to know your story. I know that there’s so much more that we could have talked about today. So this is the beginning. Am I right in saying that this is the beginning of more conversations? DESIIRE, you told me something very important when we first sat down, which was we got to do this, continue this. Outside of February, outside of Pride month, we’re here 365. We need to hear the stories 365. And that’s what I do in my day to day, is I make sure that those voices are out in the front. So I’m just happy to be a part of the music industry in that way. I am going to let everyone know that we’re wrapping up now. So we’re wrapping up and just wanted to say a big thank you to man again. We have a visitor. Okay. Alright. What is the name?
Witch Prophet
Rico. He was like crying, so I was like, okay. He’s like, please.
Nzingha Miller
My heart. Said it’s okay time to come back to me, mom. Thank you again. Thank you to Advance. Thank you to the JUNOS.
Billy Newton-Davis
Thank you. Advance.
Nzingha Miller
You wouldn’t be able to do this today if it wasn’t for these powerhouses in Canadian music that are working behind the scenes to get things like this happening and move the needle. Let’s move the needle and get some traction going. This is not the last you’ll see of us. You’ll see a lot, much more of us in the next while.
DESIIRE
And thank you to our wonderful host as well.
Billy Newton-Davis
Yes, you’re wonderful.
DESIIRE
Amazing.
Billy Newton-Davis
You’re a fabulous girl.
DESIIRE
Beautiful.
Nzingha Miller
The job is just easy working with you all. So I feel like I have a new family and new friends, and I can’t wait to hopefully see and hear all of you in person. All right, much love. Stay safe, everyone, and we will catch you next time. Thanks for joining this fourth installment of JUNOTalks: The culture, the blueprint LGBTQ+ voices and Black Canadian music. Until next time.
